Wednesday, August 25, 2010

Nocker Geek's Counterpoint Article

Nocker Geek has posted an interesting counter point article to my recent post about Kauyon Builds.It offers a different perspective on Tau army builds and the advantages of fielding a Mobile Cadre instead of a semi-static firebase army that I presented the other day.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about army builds since I switched over to the Kauyon style and one of the things I want to do later is merge tactics from both army builds to create a Mobile Army that defense and firepower afforded to a Kauyon Build without sacrificing the ability to move ad out maneuver the enemy.  

Check out Nocker's Article here: Mont'Ka: We Will Strike the Killing Blow


Marshal Wilhelm said...

I don't believe Kauyon needs to be reminiscent of 4th ed gunlines or as I like to think of it, WWI warfare.

As shown by Darkseer's rolling wall, the Fish can be used for the Suits as mantlets.

RailHeads with multi-trackers can drift 12" to get side shots on AV and provide another moving screen for the Suits.

It is just that you have the fulcrum to work from.
The fulcrum is the Broadsides. Others peel or are deployed away from the fulcrum. This allows side shots and not leaving units all nicely together for the baddies to gobble up.

tim said...

i have tried to merge tactics from both styles. so far it works pretty effectively.

Antisocialnerd said...

I don't use my kroot as screens or speedbumps i use them primarily to deny cover by taking and hopefully holding all the best real estate with infiltrate and to lay fire down on any of my broadsides blindspots usually backed up by my mobile suits which i run 8 of who primarily reinforce anywhere their needed.

This leaves my opponent three choices go down into the broadsides field of fire try to go down their blindspots and face kroot and crisis suit firepower or to assault the kroot directly and try to get through them.

Though i will admit i'm new to tau and haven't "field tested" this much.

ehemkeh said...

Well, I play Tau as my primary army and I do try to play in tournaments as much as I can. I suppose my lists are generally considered Hybrid-mech (Kroot pillboxes, pathfinders, broadsides - everything else can move and shoot). I haven't won a tournament yet, but I've had some top 5 finishes. I still have fun running Tau regardless if I win or lose.

The Fabulous Orcboy said...

(second attempt at comment)

I call shenanigans. Nocker's description of what he does is THE SAME THING YOU DO.

It's the same basic strategy of delay-and-shoot. The core concept is identical: rely on suits, use vehicles as cover, delay/avoid assaults, shoot lots.

You even describe the same basic army lists. The difference is a matter of flavor-to-taste, using different units at the periphery.

The 'debate', such as it is, seems to be based on Nocker's confusion about what non-vehicular 'screening units' are supposed to be doing, and some very strange ideas about their disadvantages.

This isn't a debate about Mont'ka versus Kauyon. It's about two slight variations of the same strategy -- which (as you noted) is the only one that still works for Tau anymore.

Old Shatter Hands said...

@Fab Orkboy, Where were you at NOVA? Didn't see you there and was hoping to.

Anyhoo, I think the difference is that the Nocker is saying that you need to be fully mobile, and move out and use terrain and positioning to win, while I'm saying, set up a static firebase, blaze away and then move out once the board is clear. The Kauyon is largely infantry based, while the Mont'Ka is vehicle-based. One sets up a static firebase or two and the other sets up a mobile firebase.

Maybe you're right though, we could be considering the same builds and tactics and just think we're talking about different things. The internet is a limited form of communication afterall.

The Fabulous Orcboy said...

@OSH, NOVA was a scheduling conflict. Maybe next year :) Sounds like this year was plenty fun.

I think you and Nocker just have a difference of perspective. Your list is hardly immobile (even with Pathfinders and Kroot), just like his list isn't exactly fast skimmer heaven.

But I do think that this matter of perspective keeps Nocker from really understanding what to do with Kroot. Re-reading his 'arguments', I think every one of his points is wide of the mark.

To address his points in order:

(1) Screening doesn't have a huge disadvantage against good opponents, as they will have their units in cover *anyway*

(2) He doesn't understand the concept of Kroot/Drone bubblewrap. They're mobile terrain, infiltrator/deep-strike deniers, all precisely because they are forward units that (as units) are impassable during the movement phase.

(3) He doesn't understand the point of Target Priority -- you shoot the easy stuff with Railguns FIRST, and then go after AV14. Anyway, static AV14 is not a huge issue anyway, as it's shooting (not assaulting). And Land Raiders have no side armor difference.

(4) Your Kroot aren't a fire screen, they're a skirmish screen. This was true in 4e, too, so I'm not sure what his 3e mentality is doing here. You keep your Suits out of LOS either way in order to keep them not shot, obviously.

(5) Obviously Tau go for shooting wipe-outs. And relying entirely on 'mobility' to avoid combats isn't reliable in games over 1500 points against good opponents, because Tau just don't move that quickly and the table has edges.

(6) Having Pathfinders and Kroot doesn't mean you have to Castle.